Not impressed (my review of the Verizon Q 9c)

seandaly · 05-30-2008, 07:50 AM

OK, so I've had the Verizon Q 9c for a week now and figured I'd share my experience with the phone. My company uses Verizon and they pay for a group plan, which includes data, txt and minutes.

Warning: Wall of text!

This is my first Verizon smart phone and had avoided them in the past as Verizon has a history of ruining mobile devices by dumbing down the interfaces and locking out tons of features.

My criteria (in order) for a new phone were:

WM
Outlook w/ Active Sync
Real full-qwerty keyboard (not just touchscreen)
REAL GPS (this is huge... I wanted location + turn-by-turn)
Ability to read / edit office docs
Ability to store / play MP3's (also, bluetooth speaker support)
Ability to store large amount of data (at least 4GB, 8GB preferred)
Built-in Wi-Fi
Decent data speeds / access / coverage (usually not a problem with Verizon in the populated areas)
Ability to watch movie files

I originally had a short list of Verizon phones that all met some of my needs, but not all. They were:

SMT5800 (no GPS, crappy looking, no Wi-Fi)
XV6900 (No GPS, no qwerty, no Wi-Fi)
SCH-i760 (No GPS, somewhat ugly, was my first choice for features though)
Palm 700wx (No WM6, no GPS, no Wi-Fi, all business, no pleasure)
XV6800 (no GPS, short on RAM and limited to 4GB SD)

Then the Q 9c came out and it seemed to fit the bill. It LOOKED to have most of the features that I wanted out of the box. Here is what I thought the phone had per my research (and verizon's site & reps)

WM6 standard w/ IE and WMP
Outlook
Documents to go
sGPS capable + VZ Navigator (i'd never used this, so reading the marketing materials, I was led to believe that it was fully GPS capable, and for $10 a month, you could add a Garmen / TomTom-like turn-by-turn functionality)
Bluetooth
8GB Mini-SD
Streaming & stored video file support
5way Nav-key (I though this would control a pointer like a mouse?)

Exterior:

Very nice looking phone... The all black face looks slick with just enough silver trim. Very thin with the standard batter Verizon ships it with. The display is smaller than many newer WM smart phones, but looks adequate. Keyboard looks good, but the keys are a little crowded for my nubby fingers, although much better than any of the new Palms.

Pros - slick, simple, seems sturdy

Cons - small screen, too much reliance on "function" keys (all WM's), no touchscreen or mouse on a WM6 phone is just weird.

Interface:

Verizon seems to have gone with the oversimplify method here. Even though it's WM6 standard, they should have left the option to use the standard WM6 desktop if you wanted it, although I suppose it would be nearly impossible to navigate without a mouse or touchscreen. The layout choices are not all that bad and the scroll wheel on the side makes navigation with the interface pretty quick. Ships with IE but it feels more like surfing with the old embedded RaZr browser. If you choice standard start menu, it takes forever to get through the menu's (having to hit more all the time), but again, the scroll wheel speeds up the process.

The messaging interfaces are great. Outlook is easy to use and wireless sync was a breeze to set up.

The ability to customize the interfaces and phone are limited (sorting start menu, etc), although you can use some of the existing hack tools to fix at least some of this.

Media center makes finding your media files pretty easy. Takes forever to catalog 1000 MP3's, but once it's done, WMP does a decent job finding them.

Performance & features:

Sluggish performance... You don't know which applications you have to actually find an exit key to shut down without looking at the task manager. only 18MB of RAM average available when nothing but system task is running.

MP3 playback is pretty good, although having to use Windows Media Player to play MP3's is bogus and a waste of resources. Might be able to find another player. The 2.5 jack sucked and I have to use an adapter to use all of my 3.5 headphones. Sound is OK, headphone volume is WEAK! If you listen to loud music, use an in-line amp. Overall, it's tolerable...

Video playback is a joke. They shouldn't even market it as a feature. The smallest video files I have (less than 240x320 @ 20fps) are way too choppy to watch. I even found a 12fps file and it's not watchable. Youtube mobile isn't even tolerable.

Web browing is OK. Again, a pain w/out a touchscreen, stylus or mouse, but alright. iPhone-esque zoom would be nice, but it's on par with other WM phones in this price range.

And now we come to the most frustrating thing about this phone.

GPS is DISABLED! Even though it clearly states on the Verizon site for the Q9c that it is sGPS capable, they've disabled it! Oh sure, they'll turn it on when VZ Navigator is loaded and it verifies that you have VZ Navigator on your plan, but otherwise, it's completely disabled. This is maddening! Neither Windows Live nor Google Maps are capable of using the GPS chip. I tried EVERYTHING to get this working, even applying non-Q hacks that have forced many factory resets but with zero success.

The Moto Q 9c DOES have a GPS chip and it most certainly works on the sprint model of the phone. It's not disabled completely on the VW version, just conveniently disabled for everything except VZ Navigator.

This was the #1 reason why I chose this WM Verizon phone over others and to lock out that functionality is unbelievable. Verizon has been ruining mobile devices for years and they're not stopping with the Q 9c.

I've trolled hundreds of forum posts looking for a way to hack the GPS but have found nothing.

I wouldn't really be so upset if the Verizon marketing materials and reps did not lead me to believe that this phone does have real GPS functionality enabled. The features section on the site shows "aGPS capable for E911 emergency location/sGPS. sGPS is Simple GPS. The Motorola spec's show a GPS chip in the phone! Nowhere did Motorola or Verizon mention that this chip is not accessable for any use other than VZ navigator.

So, in summary, even though I'm not happy with a few features / performance of the phone and am extremely angry about the GPS lockout, the phone will do the job for a while and function as a reasonable mobile business device for work and 2nd as an Mp3 player. It's usable and most people will be very happy with the phone's performance and functionality.

At the end of the day, you have a good looking WM6 phone w/ support for 8GB miniSD (technically will support 32GB when available), qwerty keyboard and decent performance and functionality for $129 (currently), which is a bargain.

If non-VZ Navigator GPS or the ability to play movie files is high on your list of requirements, do not get this phone. If not, I think you'll be very happy.

Side-note to other VW Q9c users: Let's get moving on finding a way to hack this GPS lockout! The chip is there, and it's running Windows mobile, so i'd assume it must be hidden in the registry somewhere. Either that, or the driver file is hidden / secured and is only loaded dynamically when VZ-nav is launched.

rainmakerrc · 05-30-2008, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by seandaly

OK, so I've had the Verizon Q 9c for a week now and figured I'd share my experience with the phone. My company uses Verizon and they pay for a group plan, which includes data, txt and minutes.

Warning: Wall of text!

This is my first Verizon smart phone and had avoided them in the past as Verizon has a history of ruining mobile devices by dumbing down the interfaces and locking out tons of features.

My criteria (in order) for a new phone were:

WM
Outlook w/ Active Sync
Real full-qwerty keyboard (not just touchscreen)
REAL GPS (this is huge... I wanted location + turn-by-turn)
Ability to read / edit office docs
Ability to store / play MP3's (also, bluetooth speaker support)
Ability to store large amount of data (at least 4GB, 8GB preferred)
Built-in Wi-Fi
Decent data speeds / access / coverage (usually not a problem with Verizon in the populated areas)
Ability to watch movie files

I originally had a short list of Verizon phones that all met some of my needs, but not all. They were:

SMT5800 (no GPS, crappy looking, no Wi-Fi)
XV6900 (No GPS, no qwerty, no Wi-Fi)
SCH-i760 (No GPS, somewhat ugly, was my first choice for features though)
Palm 700wx (No WM6, no GPS, no Wi-Fi, all business, no pleasure)
XV6800 (no GPS, short on RAM and limited to 4GB SD)

Then the Q 9c came out and it seemed to fit the bill. It LOOKED to have most of the features that I wanted out of the box. Here is what I thought the phone had per my research (and verizon's site & reps)

WM6 standard w/ IE and WMP
Outlook
Documents to go
sGPS capable + VZ Navigator (i'd never used this, so reading the marketing materials, I was led to believe that it was fully GPS capable, and for $10 a month, you could add a Garmen / TomTom-like turn-by-turn functionality)
Bluetooth
8GB Mini-SD
Streaming & stored video file support
5way Nav-key (I though this would control a pointer like a mouse?)

Exterior:

Very nice looking phone... The all black face looks slick with just enough silver trim. Very thin with the standard batter Verizon ships it with. The display is smaller than many newer WM smart phones, but looks adequate. Keyboard looks good, but the keys are a little crowded for my nubby fingers, although much better than any of the new Palms.

Pros - slick, simple, seems sturdy

Cons - small screen, too much reliance on "function" keys (all WM's), no touchscreen or mouse on a WM6 phone is just weird.

Interface:

Verizon seems to have gone with the oversimplify method here. Even though it's WM6 standard, they should have left the option to use the standard WM6 desktop if you wanted it, although I suppose it would be nearly impossible to navigate without a mouse or touchscreen. The layout choices are not all that bad and the scroll wheel on the side makes navigation with the interface pretty quick. Ships with IE but it feels more like surfing with the old embedded RaZr browser. If you choice standard start menu, it takes forever to get through the menu's (having to hit more all the time), but again, the scroll wheel speeds up the process.

The messaging interfaces are great. Outlook is easy to use and wireless sync was a breeze to set up.

The ability to customize the interfaces and phone are limited (sorting start menu, etc), although you can use some of the existing hack tools to fix at least some of this.

Media center makes finding your media files pretty easy. Takes forever to catalog 1000 MP3's, but once it's done, WMP does a decent job finding them.

Performance & features:

Sluggish performance... You don't know which applications you have to actually find an exit key to shut down without looking at the task manager. only 18MB of RAM average available when nothing but system task is running.

MP3 playback is pretty good, although having to use Windows Media Player to play MP3's is bogus and a waste of resources. Might be able to find another player. The 2.5 jack sucked and I have to use an adapter to use all of my 3.5 headphones. Sound is OK, headphone volume is WEAK! If you listen to loud music, use an in-line amp. Overall, it's tolerable...

Video playback is a joke. They shouldn't even market it as a feature. The smallest video files I have (less than 240x320 @ 20fps) are way too choppy to watch. I even found a 12fps file and it's not watchable. Youtube mobile isn't even tolerable.

Web browing is OK. Again, a pain w/out a touchscreen, stylus or mouse, but alright. iPhone-esque zoom would be nice, but it's on par with other WM phones in this price range.

And now we come to the most frustrating thing about this phone.

GPS is DISABLED! Even though it clearly states on the Verizon site for the Q9c that it is sGPS capable, they've disabled it! Oh sure, they'll turn it on when VZ Navigator is loaded and it verifies that you have VZ Navigator on your plan, but otherwise, it's completely disabled. This is maddening! Neither Windows Live nor Google Maps are capable of using the GPS chip. I tried EVERYTHING to get this working, even applying non-Q hacks that have forced many factory resets but with zero success.

The Moto Q 9c DOES have a GPS chip and it most certainly works on the sprint model of the phone. It's not disabled completely on the VW version, just conveniently disabled for everything except VZ Navigator.

This was the #1 reason why I chose this WM Verizon phone over others and to lock out that functionality is unbelievable. Verizon has been ruining mobile devices for years and they're not stopping with the Q 9c.

I've trolled hundreds of forum posts looking for a way to hack the GPS but have found nothing.

I wouldn't really be so upset if the Verizon marketing materials and reps did not lead me to believe that this phone does have real GPS functionality enabled. The features section on the site shows "aGPS capable for E911 emergency location/sGPS. sGPS is Simple GPS. The Motorola spec's show a GPS chip in the phone! Nowhere did Motorola or Verizon mention that this chip is not accessable for any use other than VZ navigator.

So, in summary, even though I'm not happy with a few features / performance of the phone and am extremely angry about the GPS lockout, the phone will do the job for a while and function as a reasonable mobile business device for work and 2nd as an Mp3 player. It's usable and most people will be very happy with the phone's performance and functionality.

At the end of the day, you have a good looking WM6 phone w/ support for 8GB miniSD (technically will support 32GB when available), qwerty keyboard and decent performance and functionality for $129 (currently), which is a bargain.

If non-VZ Navigator GPS or the ability to play movie files is high on your list of requirements, do not get this phone. If not, I think you'll be very happy.

Side-note to other VW Q9c users: Let's get moving on finding a way to hack this GPS lockout! The chip is there, and it's running Windows mobile, so i'd assume it must be hidden in the registry somewhere. Either that, or the driver file is hidden / secured and is only loaded dynamically when VZ-nav is launched.

TCPMP would address the movie file issues (there's also a YouTube hack for this)

and

Opera Mini 4.1, TeaShark, and/or Skyfire would address the web browsing issues.

I have all of these on my apps page (except for Skyfire, which you need to sign up for on their website) if you want to try them out.

spork27 · 05-30-2008, 11:23 AM

Along with what Rain said (TCPMP I prefer for music as well as video), you can also change your Homescreen to whatever you want (I assume this is what you mean by 'desktop').

ckeegan · 05-30-2008, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by seandaly

XV6800 (no GPS, short on RAM and limited to 4GB SD)

If I'm not mistaken, the XV6800 has more RAM than any other device on your list, and I don't think (unless I'm mistaken) any Verizon device currently supports more than 4gb flash. Other than that, the XV6800 is the only device on your list with a true GPS chip (not just VZNav), which has been disabled by Verizon, but is easily activated through a hacked ROM or kitchen.

Can't believe you picked a Moto out of that list.

PacoJr67 · 05-31-2008, 08:56 AM

as I have said before, unless there has been a major change between the sprint Q9c and the Verizon version. It does have a true GPS (aGPS is still true GPS)

Interesting first post though...

darkdomino · 06-03-2008, 11:04 PM

A lot of your complaints seem to be with the stock Windows Mobile software. Internet Explorer mobile sucks giant monkey balls... why you didn't download Opera Mini the second you opened your phone is beyond me, but whatever.

Either way, I think 99% of your complaints could be solved by downloading 3rd party applications. Personally I have played with WM on my girlfriend's phone and have never had any problems playing my collection of music files... no problems whatsoever.

I will give you that WM is not the snappiest OS on the block though...

seandaly · 06-05-2008, 08:26 AM

Opera mini will not install. I get an unsupported error. I even tried to load older versions, same error.

Looks like verizon strikes again?

rainmakerrc · 06-05-2008, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by seandaly

Opera mini will not install. I get an unsupported error. I even tried to load older versions, same error.

Looks like verizon strikes again?

You need to install JBed first. I have the CAB file on my apps page with instructions.

seandaly · 06-05-2008, 08:30 AM

I tried to load opera mini on day 1. It will not install, suspecting verizon blocked it?

I have run into this with other apps as well.

It seems the majority of my issues are not phone related, but caused by verizon.

rainmakerrc · 06-05-2008, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by seandaly

I tried to load opera mini on day 1. It will not install, suspecting verizon blocked it?

I have run into this with other apps as well.

It seems the majority of my issues are not phone related, but caused by verizon.

What other apps have you tried to install that would not work?