Opera Mini and the new Full Screen Midlet thingy

Discussion in 'Windows Phone Software' started by g-funkster, Oct 9, 2007.

  1. g-funkster

    g-funkster New Member

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    webcrush is right, the speed tests are TOTALLY invalid, they're measuring Opera's servers not your internet speed.
  2. MBK2

    MBK2 New Member

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    So say those dslreports.com speed tests are invalid, how do you explain the overall speeds of Opera Mini?

    Everything loads up lightning quick compared to IE or Opera Mobile, how?
  3. MBK2

    MBK2 New Member

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    g-funkster, another question.

    So when we use dslreports speed test to test IE's speed using Verizon, what are we measuring exactly??...and how is that different from using Opera Mini's servers as you stated??

    How does the speed test work exactly?? Isn't it that it is basically pinging off the servers in question??
  4. g-funkster

    g-funkster New Member

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    The point of the speed test is to test *your* direct connection to the Internet. By using Opera to do the test, you're essentially testing Opera's connection to the internet.

    Your confusion lies in the fact that you believe Opera Mini to be a real browser. It's kinda not. You're not seeing real HTML, you're seeing whatever gobbledy-frankenblah Opera sends to mobile phones that's super compact, highly compressed and pre-rendered so your mobile doesn't spend all those resources formatting/downloading etc.
  5. webcrush

    webcrush New Member

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    To put it another way--when you browse to any site using OperaMini, you are not talking to the internet, you are talking to Opera's cache servers.

    When you tell OperaMini to get a webpage, what it really does is tell Opera's server's to go get the webpage, render it and return to you a facade of it.

    The whole round trip the only connection you are making with is to Opera's servers.
  6. gmardre

    gmardre New Member

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    It sure looks the same as a browser. How does Opera know what we are going to search for in Google? Also, if we use the hack to avoid VZW servers, using Open DNS...does that affect Opera Mini?
  7. gmardre

    gmardre New Member

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    What is the downside to using Opera---knowing that it is really just going to Opera servers?
  8. webcrush

    webcrush New Member

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    no, OperaMini only talks to the Opera Servers. It may look like a full featured webbrowser, but under the covers it just a shell to render what Opera Servers give it.

    The Opera Servers take whatever URL including post headers and such and acts like a relay, but doesn't return to you the raw data, but a preprocessed version of it that can render quickly.
  9. webcrush

    webcrush New Member

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    data privacy maybe?
  10. MBK2

    MBK2 New Member

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    OK, I see that you guys attempted to explain Opera Mini's speed as it being almost like 'buffering'....

    Couple more things that I feel sorta seems a little contradictory to that, is...

    1. Isn't the connection you are getting thru...say Verizon in my case...a 'Server'???

    2. Regardless of what 'mini' data (gobbledy-frankenblah as you called it) of a webpage that Opera Mini sends to us initially, you can't refute the fact that you can zoom into that page instantaneously......including graphics/pictures....speed is speed if we are getting the actual content of the said website, and is accessible 'immediately'...

    3. So how can the mspeed test of Opera Mini be invalid??? It is pinging servers in either case, Opera Mini or Verizon...right? And it is measuring how fast 400 KBs or 1 MB 'pings' isn't it??
    It isn't measuring an actual full webpage when testing Verizon's server, while only measuring 'gobbledy-frankenblah' when testing Opera Mini's server...
    400 KBs is 400KBs, any way you look at it...No??

    If you can explain to me those three things I mentioned, then I will say that Opera Mini isn't as good as I know it to be. Although I know already the speed differences of loading the actual webpages are at times nearly 10X faster with Mini. :wink::laugh2:

    Oh and in regards to data privacy...we'd be fooling ourselves if we think that surfing the web with our Q's is secure by any stretch of the imagination!!...LOL..Unless of course you have installed on your Q, a Firewall, Anti-spyware, and even an anti-virus programs... :{
  11. webcrush

    webcrush New Member

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    What are these 'verizon servers' you refer to?

    Your Q has its own IP address when online, and when you hit a site, that IP is logged because your device has physically made contact with the website's server.

    When using OperaMini, your IP is not logged to the site, because your device was never personally there, only Opera's middleman server was.

    The difference is speed is important because in a normal scenario you are physically downloading all the HTML onto your device including images, references to JS, css, etc files. Rendering it all takes more time.

    With Opera Mini, you are getting a 'snapshot' which isn't close to the real thing.
  12. Stealth

    Stealth New Member

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    Looks kinda like deepfish.
  13. MBK2

    MBK2 New Member

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    So when I use IE, it channels me thru anywhere from San Bernardino, CA to Scotsdale, AZ......different Servers correct?? The fact that Opera Mini is contacting the webpages for us using their address may be different than how Verizon's servers do (not real sure on that), but regardless, it is getting the full content to our Q's in either case.
    No 'snapshot' theory if you can access the entire page..is it??

    Great example here is the Apple page as in the first post...
    Use IE to get the full page up, it takes say.... 30 seconds???
    Use OpMini to get the condensed visual of that page, it takes say....3 seconds??
    I know I know, you're going to say that OpMini only loaded the condensed page and not the entire webpage, yada yada, right?.....only one problem with that explanation....if I were to zoom in, the actual webpage is already available...How?????
  14. webcrush

    webcrush New Member

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    MB--not an insult but its clear to me that you do not understand how the internet works, as well as the innards of web applications.

    just because you zoom 'in' to the page doesn't mean you still have the page. its a facade, a representation of the page, not the real page.

    i'm not going to debate this further, sorry.

  15. gmardre

    gmardre New Member

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    I understand where MB is coming from. It sounds like Opera Mini is cheating by doing it the way they do, and in that cheating, they do not --are not able to provide exactly what PIE would. But the real issue for me, and probably most Q users, is that the information that IS provided is
    exactly the information we were looking for. All the words and pictures and links are there. So, we don't understand what we are not getting by using OM. Ok, so it is a facade....it looks like the real page, has all the information on it, you can interact with it, and it's 10X faster.

    That is what we don't understand. What is wrong with OM practically?

    gm
  16. MBK2

    MBK2 New Member

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    I understand if you cannot explain it...:wink:

    Yeah, you're right, I don't know how the internet works...I know nothing about HTML code and webpages, or how PIE is considered to be working more 'fully' than Opera Minis 'snapshots'.....
    Was hoping you could explain it better, but I see you're not sure yourself...I understand:wink:
  17. MBK2

    MBK2 New Member

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    EXACTLY!!!!! :wink:
  18. webcrush

    webcrush New Member

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    Nothing is wrong with it, and nobody has said there was.

    But running a DSLReports style speed test is silly. What is the test actually testing? All it will test on OM is that Opera's server have good bandwidth to the internet--which has NOTHING to do with the speed you are receiving.

    Example--download physical file using Opera Mini and tell me if its any faster.

    Hint: its not, and Opera doesn't even bother trying which is why it hands the requests of to PIE.
  19. MBK2

    MBK2 New Member

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    I see now...you are talking about actual file downloads. While we were talking of loading web content. Doesn't DSLReport measure content loading speeds as well??
  20. webcrush

    webcrush New Member

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    The contents of a web page ARE file loads. Each image is a file. Each javascript include is a file. Each cascading style sheet is a file. I would imagine a standard webpage would contain about 100-200 files.

    DSLReports just measure bandwidth speeds. They serve to allow you to test how fast you connection to the internet is, not how fast your computer or program is.

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