New Verizon GPS Fix

Discussion in 'Moto Q Hacks' started by wnrussell, Dec 22, 2008.

  1. CellZealot

    CellZealot New Member

    As you may imagine, this is still very active in my mind and I am looking at the Ozone with an eye towards anything of value or insight into this problem.

    I am absolutely certain that it's possible to make it work.

    For a brief 30-40 minutes I was discussing the issue with the person who actually wrote the firmware and developed the GPS solution for these phones and the Nap!

    We were/are so close...

    It can be done...I just don't know how long it would take or how best to further examine that possibility and make it happen.
  2. teddyearp

    teddyearp Member

    Well, I am a total n00b as far as all the very technical stuff that has been done in this thread.

    And I realize that this thread is mostly geared towards getting GPS on the Q9c/m models and not really the Q9n (nap), but I am now sitting here where I live with an activated Nap and a yet to be activated Ozone on which I ran the 'QuickGPS' program. The Ozone gets a GPS fix in seconds, no matter which program I run; gmaps, WLS (bing), TGPS, or trakr. My Nap takes hours if at all to get a fix. And these phones right now are sitting side-by-side.

    So, those facts aside and since all of these phones we're trying to do this with are WinMo phones, what does anyone think about trying to use the 'QuickGPS' .exe program from the Ozone on one of these other phones?
  3. CellZealot

    CellZealot New Member

    After a fairly good first look at the NVM of the Ozone the results are pretty disappointing on several levels.

    First, it does not appear that anything from the Ozone will be of much use to the Q9c, as I had assumed, because the differences in the firmware and registry as well as chipset differences.

    Second, is that just this brief examination indicates that the HTC firmware simply does a far better job of managing the GPS then Motorola. There are DLLs and reg keys as well as the helper app QuickGPS and all of these enhancements and refinement add up to an extremely effective and fast performing solution.

    It's amazing how well it works...precise fixes in seconds...often seemingly instant.

    Third is that after looking at the logs, they are entirely different than the Motorola device logs that I have been looking at and don't seem to have almost any of the familiar messages and sequences and are both full of errors and totally missing the cues that I am looking for...all the while the phone itself is performing effortlessly.

    It makes me sick to think how long I've spent trying to understand a broken and poorly implemented solution and management of the hardware.

    Motorola apparently dropped the ball a long time ago and now are rightfully having their lunch eaten by the competition.

    It's the only conclusion I can make...this comes from an absolute Moto diehard.

    It's disgusting...
  4. Tyler Lillie

    Tyler Lillie New Member

    I read somewhere that Ozone works with VZNavigator but that it also works with other GPS apps if you pay Verizon. True?
  5. CellZealot

    CellZealot New Member

    It comes with VZNav and the test account that wnrussell set up for it includes VZNav for advanced devices and all third party apps work.

    I suppose we should try removing the VZNav and testing to see if the aGPS continues to function as well. My suspicion is that it will because the QuickGPS gives it such a performance boost by pre downloading the ephemeris data and caching it locally.

    Edit: I also should say that further examination of the logs shows it working with the OS in a completely different way than either the Q9c or the Nap with an entirely different set of drivers and DLLs and resultant log messages and protocols. I certainly don't have it all figured out yet but it's all configured in the OS, the NVM GPS items are mostly inactive/not set.
    There are messages relating to random number generation ans security protocols that are in each fix sequence, like the Napoleon. These need further looking at obviously.
    The TRM config in Debug is set to 2 like the Nap though.
    The logs are almost all custom HTC messages with the GPS messages largely just showing as events. The drivers handle everything and it just works...the seed position data is there and it requests current data and gets it subsequently, in many cases immediately following the request.

    It just works...
  6. quadkidd02

    quadkidd02 New Member

    Something interesting I found while...

    Just something I stumbled upon...

    Tell me if I'm wrong, but...

    ALM_DB = Almanac Database?
    CLK_DB = ?
    EPH_DB = Ephemeris Database?
    GPS_SL_DB = ?
    GPS_SS_DB = ?
    POS_DB = Position Database?

    And those are in the "root" of the efs on my q9c, with the generic/usc flash.

    Attached Files:

  7. wnrussell

    wnrussell Active Member

    I decided to return it after having a very nice dinner with CellZealot and my 6yr old daughter last night. Although the GPS on Ozone is awesome, I love my Nap and the Ozone form factor was simply too similar.

    I'll save my upgrades for the other new Motorola phones coming just around the corner for the Android platform.
  8. Aixelsyd

    Aixelsyd Active Member

    ^^^^Pretty much the exact same reason I passed on the Ozone myself. Just was not worth the NE2 for a device that is so close to the Nap to begin with. And just to be able to save less then a min to get a GPS fix is for sure not worth it IMO.
  9. bberryhill0

    bberryhill0 Active Member

    USCC just replaced my Q9c for free again (I hope) because the screen got some bad spots so I'll wait for Android. Will Motorola really come out with a good product?
  10. wnrussell

    wnrussell Active Member

    It depends on what you are looking for. So far, I haven't seen anything for Verizon that looks like Q9 form factor. If you don't have a Nap, you may still want to look at Ozone.

    One thing about Motorola though for sure - it will never have another device which qualifies for this forum EverythingWM, because Motorola has abandoned Windows Mobile.
  11. teddyearp

    teddyearp Member

    Hmm, this post has got me thinking about doing the same thing. I just wrote an e-mail to the guy that sold me my Nap about this. I am with you, the GPS on the Ozone is awesome, and not only that, I have been gitting into some s/w combinations that would allow me to still use GPS tracking with maps cached to my TF card in areas with out any cell service, a big 'wow factor' for me.

    But (and this should probably be posted in the Ozone vs Nap thread, but here it is), I have yet to be able to get a wired stereo headset to work with the Ozone (even with the adapter, maybe i missed a setting), when I have my BT headset hooked up to my Nap and push the button, I get the familiar "Say a Command" message, and go from there, and the keyboard on the Nap is superior along with the 'Quick Launch' keys I have many more options within 'speed dial'. The camera on the Nap is much better. And to finish off, on the Nap, all I have to do is swipe my finger across the fingerprint scanner to get the screen to come back to life.

    But that durned GPS is sweet on the Ozone, but if Motorola is going to release their 'shole' for VZW as an actual release phone, then I bet it will far surpass the Ozone and maybe even the Nap? But then we'll all have to go off and sign in to an Andriod (as you said) site because as I wrote, I don't want to be left behind, lol.
  12. wnrussell

    wnrussell Active Member

    Again, my thinking exactly. I am going to wait for Motorola, but Windows Mobile especially for Motorola, is done as far as I can tell.

    The remarks here probably would fit somewhere else, except they pertain to getting decent GPS.
  13. bberryhill0

    bberryhill0 Active Member

    When the forums come up on Everything Android I will be ready to sign up. USCC probably won't get an Android phone for a few years and the HTC Touch Pro they offer sounds pretty flaky still so it may be off to Verizon eventually for me. Come on Motorola. Build another phone I want to buy.
  14. wnrussell

    wnrussell Active Member

  15. teddyearp

    teddyearp Member

    My thinking exactly, once there are forums for Everything Android, I'll be signing up in anticipation of the Sholes?

    But why are you hesitating on switching from USCC to VZW? I tried USCC for a couple of months when I was testing what I could do with a VZW V3m flashed to USCC and found that USCC's service was lacking in pricing and amount(s) of services offered.
  16. bberryhill0

    bberryhill0 Active Member

    A year left on my contract. Verizon is new here with their purchase of UniCel so I will wait a bit for them to shake out the switch.
  17. Vazguard

    Vazguard Active Member

    Having returned from my summer break, I am disappointed that this wondrous project has fell short of its goals. But I am grateful to see and contribute in such a giant undertaking!

    You all are a force to be reckoned with, and I am glad that EWM has a group of active and vibrant developers.

    Good luck on all your future exploits!

  18. FXD

    FXD New Member

    Gps without cellular service

    "I have been gitting into some s/w combinations that would allow me to still use GPS tracking with maps cached to my TF card in areas with out any cell service, a big 'wow factor' for me."

    Have you had any luck on that front? I am going to be out of the country this spring and have been trying to verify a set up that will ensure I can use igo8 without having any cellular connection. Any help is greatly appreciated.
  19. teddyearp

    teddyearp Member

    I was able to find a combination to work for the Ozone, but gave up on the Nap. I don't know what kind of phone you have, so i don't know what to say. From my brief look at igo8, it looks to have saved maps, right?
  20. FXD

    FXD New Member


    Yeah it runs off of maps stored on the SD card. It works very well and the maps are pretty accurate. I am really trying to find a way, besides driving out of my coverage area, to verify that it will function without a cell signal when I go to Ireland.

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