Discussion in 'Moto Q 9c' started by dfc849, May 1, 2009.
At least Verizon offers the program to use GPS. Alltel restricted their phone and does not.
If by "Theft. Stealing. Robbery. Cheating. Felony." you mean using my phone, that I bought with my money independently of Verizon, to use for whatever legal purpose I see fit, then you can proceed to lump me into the Felon category as well.
I didn't sign a contract for this phone, nor did I sign any other agreement limiting its use thereof. I'm paying Verizon for the privilege of allowing my phone to connect to their network, not to let them police the use of its hardware and functionality it provides.
Theft is not occurring here; it's my hardware, not Verizon's, that'll be using GPS data that my tax dollars paid for. If we were talking about pirating VZ Navigator, that's a different story. Let Verizon have that revenue stream, they have to sustain their business somehow. But trying to guarantee that revenue stream at the expense of crippling my hardware? No. Just no.
You can attempt to justify your position however you want. I doubt that any court would declare you the winner based on an arguement (paraphrased) of "Wah...it's mine, I paid for it". You didn't. You signed up for the phone service and the service never said you get GPS for free.
...did you even read the post? It is mine, not Verizon's. I was not under the impression that I'd be getting GPS for free, nor was it made clear that they'd prevent my hardware from functioning as intended. NOTHING is being stolen. I'm not circumventing a Verizon paid service or attempting to access said service (namely, VZ Navigator) for free. THAT is theft, pirating, five-finger discount, or however you want to euphimize it. Enabling my hardware (the physical GPS chip; not aGPS) to function as advertised is not theft.
Tell me. Where does it state in anything that you signed that Verizon will enable your GPS hardware to function? What agreement do you have that says that?
It states this nowhere, as nothing exists that I signed except my original contract. My original contract also stated nothing of this nature, nor did it inform me that they will cripple my hardware at the behest of the Marketing and Accounting departments. I have already divulged this information in my first post.
Again: I did not sign a contract extension or anything of the kind for this phone. Verizon did not provide me this phone. I did not receive a discount from Verizon for purchasing this phone. Verizon did not take a loss on this phone by providing it to me at a discount with a contract extension, as it was not theirs to begin with. Verizon earned not a single red cent from me when I purchased this phone, as I did not acquire it from them. They can claim no ownership to my hardware or its functionality. I apologize for belaboring this point in both this and previous posts, but it seems as if you've just glossed over this important fact at least twice. It is the crux of my argument.
Now that that's out of the way, the next point: I will not be circumventing software to use aGPS through Verizon's network. If I were, yes, that would most definitely be theft, because I would be using Verizon's network to provide pseudo-GPS functionality. But I will not be using aGPS, I will be using the physical GPS chipset present on the phone. I will be making no connection to Verizon's network in any way at any time using the physical GPS chipset. Theft of service cannot occurr if I will not be using their service or their network. I've ran out of ways to phrase this key point.
In short: Wah, I DID paid for it, it's mine. Verizon is out nothing on my phone, and I'll be using the GPS chipset (not aGPS) without touching their network (which would require aGPS), which does not constitute theft. You can't have theft of service if you're not using the service.
im with ya glass! =) but until vz or someone or something unlocks it..im fairly content with my gps puck. although getting rid of one more thing to keep charged will be nice! i totally agree with all your points...
So your assertion is that since the chip is capable of operating in more than one GPS mode (which we know is true) and that in "pure" GPS mode (not aGPS), it essentially operates like an external GPS. Correct? If so, that's the most coherent discussion I've read to date from anyone on the GPS "issue"...but would seem to apply to a small minority of owners like yourself, who apparently did not purchase a phone from Verizon. I do not know from a legal standpoint if that's technically different than merely having a phone with Verizon branding.
Now as far as the data that the GPS uses, isn't that still coming across on Verizon's data network or does the GPS chip have it's own transceiver as well?
It is coming across Verizon's network if it's operating in aGPS mode (and the phone does support aGPS, due to FCC regulations and the fact that VZ Navigator exists), but the phone is completely capable of operating in standalone GPS mode that is fully independent of Verizon's towers.
Well, then maybe you and others in the same category have a basis for something like a class action lawsuit or other type of pressure mechanism to allow that usage. For most of the users out there, this doesn't apply.
Kinda surprising that class action was never bought against Verizon for GPS lockdown.
So any software you use that will use it in true GPS mode as every map, or every city in the US with street level view available, so it can put simple GPS coordinates on a map?
WOW.. that must be a hugh program, not to have to DOWNLOAD any maps
Not really. With a BT GPS now, all you need is a program like Windows search or Google maps. Both only download needed maps when in use. So if the GPS chip in the Q9c were to be enabled, anyone using an add on GPS could have one less device to carry around and keep charged.
Eh, that's what Google Maps and the unlimited data connection I'm paying for is for.
I don't know that there is anything in the a verizon contract forbidding the use of the gps chip in standalone mode. It's like buying a safe on ebay. It's locked when you get it but do what you want with it to get inside. If verizon didn't want to have a gps chip in the phone you bought, it wouldn't have included it.
Actaully gpsvp is a standalone app that you can load garmin maps on an SD chip and not need a data connection. But then data is a different service from aGPS anyway and has nothing to do with GPS signals.
With the Saga, now that I figured out how to do really good wifi positioning, I wonder if someone will try buying a Spectec wifi card for their Q and see if they can get wifi positioning working on the Q? The thing to do first would be to make sure this app will even run on a Q: http://220.127.116.11/lars/misc/smartphone/saga/Skyhookvgpsppc50-3.0.0.cab
I guess I could round up one of our Q's one day and try. If not, I bet the less capable googlemaps my location might still work.
Hm, gpsvp looks interesting, thanks in advance for the link when GPS is finally working on the Q9c.
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