Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by csmguitarman, Oct 25, 2007.
answer this question. If a planes engines had limitless horse power. could the plane do a burnout?
Wow. It's been a few days since I have checked this thread. I shouldn't have stayed away so long.
I just want to hit on the comparison to a car performing a burnout...the most drastic difference between a car and a plane is lift, not propulsion. I haven't doubted that the planes WHEELS were moving fast enough to make the jet fly. However, the plane can't actually be forced to leave the ground without enough airflow (created by forward motion) under the wings to allow flight. The original post (in my interpretation) said that the planes wheels would be moving at the same speed as the treadmill, in the reverse direction. Regardless of what speed the wheels or the treadmill are moving, the place is still stationary. If the plane is stationary, there can't be lift.
If it and the tread move one inch from there starting points. the plane will be two inches from the treadmills starting point and only one away from "its starting point"
Is that what your are saying?
No, because it doesn't have the drivetrain as a car does, and the only reason the car burns rubber is because of torque...
The car also wouldn't burn rubber if the treadmill matches the torque generated by the car's engine & drivetrain.
Again, you act as if the plane never needs to roll on the ground at all. .
If the plane has no wheels and it's fuselage is dragging on the ground...will it take far longer for the plane to get up the speed to be able to take off??
Now what if you were to place that wheel-less plane on the treadmill, and the planes' thrust tries to push it forward at 10 mph, but the treadmill goes the opposite direction at 10 mph also...will the plane not stay in the same spot?? Is it just magically gonna start floating or will it need to get to around 140 - 180 mph to be able to lift-off and start floating??
THANK YOU!!!!!!!...Finally, someone who sees it clearly.
Let me clear that up. the treadmill will be moving the planes speed not the wheels speed
The difference between a car and a plane is not lift. It is mode of thrust.
If a car had wings it might be able to lift off but it could not maintain flight like a plane can. Why do you think jet powered drag racers never have traction issue.
Think of this. If i lifted the end of a rear wheel drive car in the air and you stepped on the gas the car would not move.
Now if we did that to a plane the plane could still move
The plane would be in the same exact spot...the wheel would have turned one inch forward, but the treadmill in the other direction 1 inch, so essentially they counteracted each other.
You are proving my point. the only reason a plane uses wheels it to get to lift off speed FASTER.
You are right the plane wont burnout the way a car does because of its drivetrain. this is the same reason that the treadmill doesnt have the same affect as it would on a car.
ok then it would be only one inch away from the treadmill starting point not two like you said
So a jet with no wings can get lift and fly???
Sheer power with no torque...Now what if that jet powered drag racer is on a treadmill that matches the jet powers' thrust???
Yes, the plane can still move...why??? because it had the lift needed to be in the air...Do you understand where your theory is flawed now???
You just completely blew holes in your theory by this statement. So you admit that it must travel along the ground 'FIRST' to get up to the speed required, right?? Now what iof the treadmill is matching that forward speed you are generating with the jets thrust?? It never goes forward, so it can never get to even 1 mph, let alone 180 mph...
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. The reason that the plane will move backwards without wheels is because the friction between the fuseloge and the treadmill. THE WHEELS ARE FRICTIONLESS. since there is not friction the treadmills motion cannot be transfered to the plane. Thats why you can burnout on ice and not move. because ice is basically frictionless so you cannot transfer the cars energy to the pavement.
A plane does not transfer its energy to pavement, it transfers its energy to the air.
Answer this. If a plane had no wings but still had jet engines and the wind matches the plane in the opposite diection what would happen
HOW DOES A PLANE MOVE PERIOD. BY MOVING AIR PAST ITS SELF NOT THE GROUND.
HOW DOES A CAR MOVE PERIOD. BY MOVING GROUND PAST ITSSELF NOT THE AIR.
THEY ARE NOT THE SAME SO WHY WOULD A TREADMILL AFFECT IT THE SAME
If the wind matched the cars speed in the opposite direction can it move forward. that is all i want you to please answer.
no you are blowing them in yours. yes it need to move on the ground first but it doesnt need wheels to do that. if you greased down a runway and put the plane on skis it could still move forward.
If i greased up the treadmill and put the ski plane on it how would the treadmill keep the plane in place when it tried to move
That first part made absolutely no sense whatsoever, so I'm not going to reply to that..sorry. :frown:
But regarding a plane with no wings, which had jet engines thrusting forward with a counteracting wind going the other way...the plane would just sit there on the ground.
If it was a jet that weighed 180 tons and it was sitting on a greased treadmill, and the treadmill starts up...the plane sits in place and falls off the other end.
Now if the planes engine thrusts it forward, essentially trying to get it to slide at 100 mph, but the treadmill goes the other direction at 100 mph...will it still slide?? Yes, but it will be sliding in place, with no forward motion...
omg you have to be kidding me. How does a tread mill stop a plane from moving when a plane does not apply is acceleration to the ground.
How can something be sliding and at the same time not moving.
If the plane is not moving then how is the treadmill moving. the treadmill matches the planes speed. if it is not moving then it has no speed. speed is measured in time take to get from piont A to B. if the plane isnt moving then it is stuck at point A and has no speed for the treadmill to match
The reason that moving air (wind) did not effect the cars ability to move forward is the same reason that moving ground does not affect a planes acceleration
Guitarman, ...AGAIN I SAY... you are talking as if the plane is floating with no effects of gravity on it.
The plane weighs a Hundred and Eighty Tons...So gravity will force the plane to be solidly pressed against the treadmill, and when the jets engine thrusts, the plane must travel along the treadmill 'FIRST' before it can get fast enough to get lift, lift needed to thus render it basically floating thru the air.
Do you agree or don't you??
If you agree that it must travel along the treadmill first because of gravity, then.....
Say the thrust of the jet engine made the plane go forward a 100 yards.
Did the plane roll the 100 yards or did it float/glide the 100 yards?
Now if you agree that the plane did in fact 'roll' 100 yards forward, then it is +100 yards from the original starting point, correct?
OK, now it is sitting there without the thrust any longer.
The treadmill starts up and moves it back the 100 yards.
Is it now back at the original starting point?
OK, now that it's at the starting point,
What if we did both of those two things at the same time?? Just the 100 yards?
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