Brain Teaser

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by csmguitarman, Oct 25, 2007.

  1. csmguitarman

    csmguitarman New Member

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    I am really done with you two. Nothing against you two but you are making alot of contradictary scenarios. Perfect example is the one you just made. Just watch Mythbusters on Dec. 12 i believe. If you still believe that the plane cant move forward well talk after that
  2. MBK2

    MBK2 New Member

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    Length has nothing to do with it, but the helicopter powering itself 'does'. The helicopter mounted to the plane does not need to be operating to keep the plane stationary on the treadmill.
  3. csmguitarman

    csmguitarman New Member

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    so in one situation you sound like you are assuming that the planes engines are on and one the are off. or did i miss something

    also you cant have one situation where the heli is off and one that it is on
  4. MBK2

    MBK2 New Member

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    One last question Guitarman...Not trying to fight, but trying to see where you got your theory.



    Now that we established that the mounted helicopter is indeed different than a free-flying, self-propeled helicopter...And all this has nothing to do with drivetrains.

    Back to the jet engine...here's the question...

    The plane sits idle on that treadmill...
    Now the treadmill starts going in reverse 40 mph...
    The plane is going along with the treadmill because it is idle...

    How can the plane counter the treadmills reverse speed, so the plane doesn't fall off the back?????
  5. MBK2

    MBK2 New Member

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    Planes engines are off on both scenarios concerning the helicopters..the mounted heli scenario has the helicopter as the planes engine and is off.
  6. csmguitarman

    csmguitarman New Member

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    the only reason they are different is because in one situation you have the heli running and the other you have it not running.

    In neither situations is the heli "free flying" it is connected to the plane in both situations. In the situation of the 100ft rope, the heli is confined to the plane 100ft in all directions. So its not free flying. I am not answering anymore question until either
    A. you are able to understand why your answer is incorrect
    B. you watch Mythbusters
  7. MBK2

    MBK2 New Member

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    Hey I'm gonna hit the links...the 'golf' links...lol, so I'll check in later.

    A am seriously interested in your answer to that question Csmguitarman...I think it will shed some light as to whether your original question was worded right or not...


    No hard feelings on my end, I really enjoyed the debate with you, Goyleinlove, & Der Alta. For the most part, we all were pretty civil, got a little heated but always, calm won over.

    Ciao.
  8. MBK2

    MBK2 New Member

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    We can get bcak to this scenario after, because I have the perfect physics answer to it.

    But how about the last question??
    I really gotta go or my partners will be pissed if we miss the tee time, so will check in later. :wink:
  9. csmguitarman

    csmguitarman New Member

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    Same here.

    Where do you live I LOVE GOLF.

    We could play for who is right
  10. MBK2

    MBK2 New Member

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    OK one last post...lol

    The plane is 180 'TONS'
  11. csmguitarman

    csmguitarman New Member

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    Im pretty sure that designers took that into consideration when engineering the wheels and there wheel bearings
  12. csmguitarman

    csmguitarman New Member

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    Get a life Go play golf. LoL JK :2cool:
  13. MBK2

    MBK2 New Member

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    crap...
    late for my tee time so we got bumped a couple groups..yeah mypartners aren't too happy with me.

    If the treadmill is accelerating and not at 40 mph instantly, will the planes wheel still be spiningn or will it sit on the treadmill and move along with it?

    I think you're saying that the treadmill is slanted, where we are looking at it as a runway, more like a conveyor belt.

    posted on my Q LoL
  14. csmguitarman

    csmguitarman New Member

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    I think we are just going to have to watch the Mythbusters. We are so far into this we are just making up analogies to make them up.

    If your on the first tee. but the first tee is on a treadmill can you still tee off.....?

    hahahahahahaha
  15. .plaid

    .plaid New Member

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    This thread is like a firey train wreck: I can't look away but I'm most comfortable watching from a distance. That said....

    (and this may've been mentioned before) I've considered these water-planes that Der Alta (?) mentioned. As the plane floats on it's pontoons in the water, it moves with the current. As the bush pilot the engines (she's in Alaska in my mind) the blades are the only mechanism to propel the plane forward. When the plane is at a sufficient speed it lifts off and takes the hunters into the backcountry, blah blah blah.

    Taking that one further: presumably a plane could take off with the landing gear up, resting on the fuselage, sparks and available thrust notwithstanding.

    Of course the unresolved, sticky point in my mind is where the argument breaks down. If it's simply a matter of the engine moving enough air to create sufficient flow across the wings, could a plane take off if it's at the bottom of a steep, icy ramp? I guess that would constitute a rocket, eh?

    I want my brain-killing television.

    Best,
    .
    PFM3Q
  16. MBK2

    MBK2 New Member

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    .plaid,
    We've had tow trucks, helicopters, mounted helicopters, pantoon planes, cars, and rollerblades.......
    but I think you're plane with skis at the bottom of an icy slope is one of the best analogies.
    A plane on a severe icy slope that keeps the plane at the bottom.........'rocket'......LOL

    @ csmguitarman,
    Since the 40 mph was a stumbling block for you where you stated that the treadmill wasn't actually going 40 mph as well......
    Let's use this,
    the plane is sitting on that treadmill...
    the treadmill moves on reverse a 100 yards and stops.....
    so now the plane is a 100 yards further back on the treadmill....
    ...How will the plane move forward a 100 yards to get back to the middle?

    I truly am starting to think guitarman misworded his initial question and means something else altogether.
    Maybe like 'eventually' the planes jet engine will out cause the plane to roll faster than the treadmill can keep up??
  17. csmguitarman

    csmguitarman New Member

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    How fast does the treadmill accelerate to move 100 yards back. If it does it slow than the plane should move the full 100 yards. If it does it as fast as a corvette does. The wheels would give and the plane would not roll the full hundred yards
  18. qwho

    qwho New Member

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    Right.

    Just nit-picking, but iregardless isn't technically a word...:laugh2:
  19. Der Alta

    Der Alta New Member

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    If a plane can fly near vertical, why wouldn't it be able to generate enough force to propel itself up that mountain?

    That is the underlying basis of this question. Basically, do you think the plane will ever move? If it moves, you can assume acceleration, therefore = wind and lift. If it can't move, no lift.

    Sorry, typo. irregardless.
  20. Noonagon

    Noonagon New Member

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    The only force this conveyor belt would put on the plane in the friction of the wheel bearings. I dont know if anyone has done this but I have gotten on a treadmill on roller blades, the only force on my self is the friction on the bearings pushing me back, i can grab myself with my hands on the rail and pull forward (like the air molecules pushing on the stationary air after being violently ejected from the jet turbine) no matter if i put the treadmill on bust i can still pull myself with relative ease. SO as long as this plane can overcome bearing friction and still make it t takeoff speed it can take off no problem. Done like dinner

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